Is Modern Dating Broken? Here’s What Actually Works with Bela Gandhi

Modern dating can feel more complicated than ever—but does it have to be?

Relationship expert and Smart Dating Academy founder Bela Gandhi doesn't think so!  She joins Jamie Stein and Pascal to talk about what really works when it comes to finding love after 40.

From dating apps and first dates to unrealistic expectations, attraction, and relationship-ready partners, Bela shares practical advice for navigating today’s dating world with more confidence and less frustration.

Plus, Bela puts Pascal’s dating truths to the test, weighing in on where she agrees—and where she thinks he might have it wrong.

Whether you’re divorced, widowed, newly single, or simply wondering if lasting love is still possible, this episode is full of practical advice, surprising insights, and plenty of laughs.

In this episode:

• Why dating feels harder than ever
• The biggest mistakes people make when looking for love
• Dating apps vs. meeting people in real life
• Green flags, red flags, and deal breakers

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Is modern dating broken with all the amps and endless swiping and ghosting and breadcrumbing and orbiting and love bombing? How is anyone really finding the love of their life? Well, today we have dating expert and the founder of Smart Dating Academy, Bella Gandhi. She is with us again today, and she believes it's possible. So we're gonna talk with her all about uh what's changed, what actually works, what old rules should you throw out, what are the new rules? You're in my hometown with Jamie and Pascal. Welcome back to uh The Couch. And this is such a great topic, uh, rich with everything. Let's start with some of the words that we just that I just mentioned, these terms, right? Love bombing and ghosting and orbiting. I mean, what's happened to dating and and the use of all these terms? Are these um are these helpful?

SPEAKER_03 0:59

First of all, they're not helpful. And by and large, these things have existed from the beginning of time between human beings. It's just now with social media, we have all these names for ghosting, right? We were all teenagers, we all dated people, and then maybe they just disappeared or they blew us off or they were love bombing us. We didn't know what that meant. We're like, wow, that was a lot. And now he's disappeared. What happened, right? But now we have fun words. So that's what it is. It's just native.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Americans are great at this. Right. Okay, all right. I mean, and you know, Pascal knows a lot of these words.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I think uh, yeah, I mean, the the the bombing, the crumb, and then all that stuff is what the the new language of that young generation, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Right, right. We had a lot of fun recently when I was quizzing him. So um, anyone who hasn't heard of that episode, check it out. It's so funny. Um, but really, dating has, right, Bella, gone through a little bit of an identity crisis recently. Where are people getting more frustrated with it and just leaving the whole dating um, you know, uh uh environment? Or what what is happening right now?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yeah, I think it's a bit of a chicken or an egg right now. I think, you know, during COVID, dating apps had their most epic moments in history, right? Because people were at home, they didn't have anything else to do. So now that people are out and about, now it's been three years post-COVID or more at this point. Yeah, people really are disillusioned with the dating apps. And there to some extent is this throwback to I just want things to be the way they used to be. I can walk into a bar, I can walk into a club, and I just want to meet somebody. So there is frustration for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I agree with you. I just think then, you know, my generation and the younger generation are a little bit tired of the online dating for for many reasons. First of all, is because there is a you know, like a filtering of uh of a certain sort where you don't really look at like you are, you filter your picture, you change your age, you tell the story. I just think if people are hiding behind those dating websites. I mean, you ride your own COVID because you were locked into your house, you had no other choice, you you were swept in right and left. But I think now I've seen more because I go out a lot, I've seen more mixer, I've seen more people throwing parties and events. And I think that you could see the energy because they're there now. I think I think that's the the the the dating apps are are fading away a little bit from from what I see.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Do you think so? That okay, that's interesting. I do know that I've read that a lot of the dating apps are or some of them have started to say we're not doing swipes anymore, or they're sort of getting rid of some of what um is sort of the typical behaviors. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Yes, and a lot of the dating apps again. I mean, I started my business in 2009, so I've seen a lot of these ups and down cycles with the dating apps. So some of the dating apps are doing live events again, right? So, which is so interesting. And I think that in anybody's dating plan, right? I mean, long term, there's three pipelines to meeting people. You can meet people in real life, you can get set up by family or friends, or you use some sort of technology to meet people. So do the date are the dating apps great? No. Are there a lot of issues with them? 100%. The issue for a lot of people with dating is if they're not using a dating app, right? They have much lower, and this might sound a little crass, but there's a lot lower deal flow in dating, right? Because how many parties can you go to? The clientele that I work with, you know, which are midlife accomplished professionals, a lot of them don't want to be out three, four, five nights a week. Right, right? So they're doing one.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

No, no, no. I'm just gonna tell you one thing that's of the two subjects, and I'm not trying to cut you off, okay? And uh again, I'm in the dating scene, I'm not in the dating scene, but I'm out a lot and about. I think you choose your event. Correct. You don't go, you don't go out every single night of the week. You pick up the there is an event basically every night, okay?

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Multiple events, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Multiple events every night. So you look at the event, you say which one will fit what I'm looking for, what type of person that I am. Do I want to go into a sports bar and watch a football game with a bunch of guys and girls, or do you would I prefer to go to an event where there is more of a fashion show where I'm dealing with a different type of clientele? So when you said there is an event every night, you choose the event you want to go, and also you cannot overexpose yourself. You cannot be seen out constantly.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Do you understand that? Oh, I completely agree with you. Like the events that you pick should, number one, be something that you're legitimately interested in, right? Because then you're gonna have that energy to you, versus if you're not a sports bar person and you're like, well, maybe I'll just go because I'll meet people. You're not gonna have that magnetism to you, versus if you go to an event that's more fashion forward or something that you're interested in, you're gonna meet more like-minded people and you're going to have better conversations and connections. So I completely agree. Curate the events that you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I think curate the event you want, and and the the the I think the the thans I've seen is expose yourself to a certain level. You don't want to be seen out every night because you got a reputation of a guy who's a party here. So you want to go to the event once a week, twice a week, once a week, I would say that's a good thing. And the rest of the time, keep yourself busy. You know, I mean, the go to the gym, uh, go have dinner with a friend. You don't have to always look and be desesperate for a relationship. And that's what's happening today. People are we've talked in our previous podcast, Ginny and I, people have tendency to settle because they don't want to be alone. So to me, just take your time, find find the right person who fit what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Right. That's so true. And I think we have this epidemic of disconnection right now. People talk about loneliness. I think we're more disconnected. We have phones, so we're, you know, arguably more connected than ever. And we text people, but we're not really connecting in the way that our souls want to connect. So it's put your phone down. Do go out to dinner with a friend. Texting with a friend is okay, but it's not really connecting with a friend. We all think, oh, I'm so busy, I don't know if I have time to talk to my best friend who lives in Atlanta. And then I make the time. And after that 45 minutes, I feel so good and refreshed.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I so agree with that. I do think again, it's generational because I'll talk to my 18-year-old and say, Did you talk to so-and-so? And she says yes, but her talking to is just is Snapchatting. Yes. And that's how she sees talking. And I say, live, were you talking to this person live? So I do think that's different, but I certainly think over 40, we still have that idea of talking to is mean in person. And I agree with you. When you force yourself to go out, more often than not, you have a great time. Um, but I want to go back to what you were talking about a little bit around this perception. So it's not just the desperation of not going out all the time and sort of having your own life, but the idea that there's a perception if you go out all the time. What else can you, what else do you counsel your clients and people around sort of perception being the reality? And I and I'm gonna prompt you, right? Um, is social media and the amount of followers you have, let's say on Instagram, important for your full dating profile? Like so someone's gonna find Pascal and you know, he looks great. Um, and then I'm gonna go and see him on Instagram. Does it matter if he has 500 or 25,000 followers?

SPEAKER_03 8:56

It matters to some people. To some people. Right? Right, yeah, and that's it. And other people, I why would it matter? You know what? Everybody has their own ticks. Okay. To some extent, we see the world as we are, yeah, right? And so some people that maybe want to be famous only want to date people that are going to increase their own platform, right? Other people that are very private, they'll tell me, Bell, I don't even have social media. Is that gonna hurt me in dating? I'm like, no, it's actually great for you because it's irrelevant. You're trying to make a connection, right? That being said, but some people may seem that think that's weird. There ever again, there are people that think that's weird. There are people that don't think it's weird. I recently had a podcast episode with a client. We do a segment called Love Stories where people come back and talk about their connections. She is a therapist that lives in Portland, Oregon, and connected with a man in Sydney, Australia, and they DM'd each other for a hundred days. They did video FaceTimes, and she went to visit, he came here, and they're now married.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Oh, that's so nice. It's a great story.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

So social media can hospitality and came here and spent a couple of months and they lived together. They're like, it's just as easy as it was when we were in Australia, when we're on the phone together. So, I mean, her story is beautiful. Doing so many video dates with this man, right? It also helped both of them not have the distraction of the physicality. So they really got to know each other. She said, I'm playing words with friends with his parents that are in their 80s. Like I know this whole family before they even saw each other.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

That's very much the premise of Love is Blind, even though they had a probably they were video, they were video, but the idea of Love is Blind is that they're in these pods, as you probably know, and they just are talking and they're just getting to know each other through talking. The problem with that is that once uh you know, attraction and the and the physical part of seeing them is issues.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I think to me, I think you could be talking to someone for hours and FaceTime for hours. But if the chemistry is not there, the phone won't tell you if you have the chemistry or not. And chemistry is extremely important in a relationship. I think it is the most important in a relationship for me. So I think you know, I've been on the on the phone on FaceTime and I've talked to those people. And when they come up, you know, they look as good as they are in in person because you see them. Some of them have put a filter so they they look even better. But uh, when they come up and you you look at them and you talk to them, you like them, but there is not that spark, that fire. So to me, I will never move from one state to another without having spending time with that person for a few years. For sure. Higher percent. To go back to you to the the the you answer about the the social media. I think to me, the social media is one of the best tools to meet somebody. And for the reason being is because you could go into my social media and you could see what I do, you could see what I eat, where I wear, what I like to do, the things I do in my life. So you already get an idea if you're gonna blend with me versus the dating app where it's four pictures where filters, okay, and then uh uh texting. You if you're in a good mood, I will receive your text very well. If I'm not in a good mood, and you know, there is the mess translation of texting.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

For sure. That's the huge problem.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

That's the biggest problem of dating online, the texting online and dating online. So to me, I will advise somebody who wants to get involved, get a social media, an app, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, get to know the person and DM her. Send her a message. Hey, I saw your picture, I like you, are you available? You know, and and engage a conversation with her. And then after two, three texts, if she's interested, get the phone number and get to that. I just think the the match.com and the bumble and the the Christian dating and the cowboy dating and the Jewish dating and the farmer dating, it's it's nothing but a comedy and a joke for me. Do I sound very animated with that?

SPEAKER_03 13:15

You sound very passionate about that.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, because I just think to me, it's taking advantage of people. Period. Those dating versa are made to make money, and that's what they're interested in. Bomball went public, Christ's sake. What does he tell you?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

That's the public too.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yes. What do you what does he tell you? That they they care about who you're meeting, they care about how much money they could suck from you by getting you to buy some host, some coins, some, some, some, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

And a subscription.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Exactly. Right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

What makes a business valuable long-term recurring revenue?

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, exactly. It's all about money.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Yeah, and what you are saying is that you should be sort of using all of these tools at your disposal and sort of figuring out what works best, and that also the sort of pendulum swings a bit around sort of the focus on the in-person and the yes and on that. What let's talk a little bit about a lot of our audience are um divorced and newly newly single, maybe out of a relationship, but um more so out of divorce. Yeah, great divorce is on the rise. Huge. Um, doubles, double um the divorce rate, and over 65 triple the divorce rate.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

It's amazing. It's our client base, 100% people that are coming out of transition, divorce being number one. Yes, heartbreak and loss, people that are widowed as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

So and so what's your counsel, like again, what's your advice, your counsel to um those people coming out of that and what they need to know? You know, what what are the five things they need to know, maybe um coming into the new dating world as it is?

SPEAKER_03 14:55

I think the first thing you need to know is you need to know yourself, right? And I think a lot of people out of loneliness, right, out of like just feeling not desperate, but that like I just want to be with someone, we hop from one thing to the next and we don't take that time to say, okay, what happened in my divorce? Or what happened in my last relationship in this breakup and really processing, right? Did I rely, did I over-index on chemistry versus compatibility? Did I move too fast? Did I ignore red flags? Like, do I have a pattern, right? It's not necessarily the dating pool that's a problem. For a lot of people, it's how they're choosing.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. Is the choice you make based on what you think you like without knowing who you are and what you're looking for?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

That's right. And I think that that's the first thing I would tell people is take your time to get to know yourself or even work with someone who can help to elicit the right things out of you, right? Because we all sort of think, well, I know, I mean, it was all his fault, right? As soon as I hear that, I'm like, I hear a bit of a dating pattern here, right? Because it always takes two people. It always takes two. What happened? What was their responsibility? What was yours? Right. And now who have you become? What's gonna make you happy for this, you know, for this new chapter for the next 40 to 50 years of your life, right? And really understanding what those qualities are that are gonna elevate you and make you happy versus picking same person, different face decade over decade, right? And saying, Oh, the dating pool sucks, the app suck. It's like, well, maybe you're not picking the right people.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Right, right. What what do you do you though think sometimes people should just date to date to try to get sort of back into the mode of it?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

I think for some people, yes, especially when they're they have a lot of anxiety about dating, right? Anytime you have a lot of anxiety about anything, the way to build your confidence is to do the reps, do the thing. So for people that haven't dated, I get that many people who are like, I haven't been on a date since 1983. Like I have no idea how to do this. I'm like, okay, let's, and that's the perfect place to use a dating app, right? And just date different kinds of people. Like if you thought, oh, you know, I only date white-collar people, try something different. Date somebody who's in the trades. Just open your mind and go on dates and find three good things about the person. I'm not saying this has to be the love of your life, but have fun. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

You know, I think I think the dating, the dating website are much more successful for women than they are for men. Women choose. I mean, most of them, the you know, the guy swap, swap, swap, and then the girls, if she like him, then she answers. So I think there is much more choice for the woman to be successful on the dating website than the guy. Do you agree with me on that?

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Here's what I'll tell you. I think that most women, interestingly, think the opposite. You see, men think I my clients are 70% women, and they think if you're a good looking, successful guy at any age, you are killing it on the apps, right? Because the stories women tell themselves.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I don't know, but I was, I mean, I'm I'm I'm not shabby, I'm successful, and I've been in the ad and I wasn't killing it at all. Nothing. I mean, I've tried and I've tried bombs, and I've tried tender, and I've tried match.com, and I've tried a few of them.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

You mean you weren't matching with people?

SPEAKER_01 18:37

No, no machine, no, I mean the the all the people I was interested, uh I swapped to the right, I pick up the picture, I put the hey, hello, how are you? I love I love the I love you do you chat, you know, and very unsuccessful on the mean. I'm talking a joke.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

So I look at myself in the mirror and say, maybe I'm too good looking.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

That's what I was gonna say. That's what I was gonna say. Maybe I'm too intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Maybe I'm too intimidating. Woman doesn't like to have a guy who's better looking than her, right? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah, I don't know. I that's so interesting. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I have have been and and again, I mean, I've tried them all. You know, I I like to open my horizon, I like to see what is my option, and I've been through all those that and I put some very nice picture, which I didn't re I didn't retouch. This is was me. Yeah, and I will have to say, to be quite honest with you, most of them has been a nothing but a failure. And the one who are looking at me was, how do you even think you're gonna go out with me?

SPEAKER_02 19:38

So you do better in person, is what you do.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

I do much better. Right. Even in person, I would say it will be it's difficult because you know the presentation, the era, the you know, women are a little bit threatened by a guy who's successful or well dressed, or you know, who's got a strong personality, who's got a good presence.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

I think you know I don't know any women that are threatened by any of that, but that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

You know, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Women typically women are threatened by a good-looking, successful guy.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Okay. Meaning they're nervous, like they're they don't know how to.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

They must send their girlfriend to get the to to give me their numbers or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

So they're insecure. They insecure not threatened.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Insecure, yes. And that's the world we live in in. Everybody is in, I mean, a lot of us, a lot of single people, particularly when you get out of a divorce. I mean, Jamie poo-poo-poo, if you get divorced, where do you go? Where do you where do you where would you go to meet somebody in your house? No, no, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

I don't want to have you to do it. I understand.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

But you're an attractive looking woman, your kids are gone out of the house, you have been out of the market for 30 some plus years, you have no experience of going out and mingled with people, you wouldn't even know how to talk to her.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

What are you talking about? I'm like living like lit literally like that. I mean, it's it's not that easy, it's not that easy. I would be a great dater. I don't want to, I don't, of course. I don't want I don't even I don't want to even talk about myself, but um It's not easy. But I agree, and I have a lot of friends who I think are amazing catches and not just think, I know, I know that they are, but they are having a hard time. Whether so so they fall into some buckets. One uh several of them fall into a bucket where they're um, you know, they're over 50, maybe over 55, and they're making uh, you know, they they're in a socioeconomic space that's that's specific. They're affluent. Yes, and they want um, they maybe they want to sort of be with someone that's that's this. And I think that they're having trouble matching up with that.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Um there are some women who uh have been dating younger men, but it's not very long or long term for them in a sense. For a good time. Yeah, for a good time.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

You're gonna make them feel good about themselves.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And there are some that are just having no success uh in finding anyone. So it is it sounds bleak to a certain extent, but then you hear wonderful success stories from your love stories that you're having. Yeah, right. And tell us more.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, I mean, we want to hear success stories because it doesn't seem as many among me.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Well, I think, listen, a lot of this comes down to the mindset that we have about dating. If what you think is true is going to happen, right? It's like when I tell they're like, well, what do you mean? I'm like, okay, if I took you both to a cocktail party, let's say, and I said, okay, Pascal Jamie, just walk around this room. There's 200 beautiful people. Tell me how many people were wearing red. Okay, and I gave you both little notebooks. You'd come back and you'd be like, okay, 17 people were wearing red. I'm like, great, that's right. How many people were wearing purple? What are you gonna say to me?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I was looking for right.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

This is what happens. If we think there's no good people on the dating apps, if we think there's no good matches for me, I'm too much. Guess what happens? We bring that we bring those people to light because our brain has an ego bias and it wants to be correct. And there are parts of our brain that literally it is the red example. We all know that our brains work this way, but we don't take that logic and look at the other places in our lives. You're a successful business owner, right? If you would have said to yourself when you were a young man, there's no way I can start a business, what would have happened to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I wouldn't be where I am today.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Correct. You had a belief in yourself, right? And were things always easy? No. No, and yet if you at those hard points, right, life is nonlinear. If you would have said, okay, it's just not meant to be for me, I kind of suck at this, what would have happened to you? You would have shut the doors, right? So if you have you have to start out with this belief, and I call it psychotic optimism. Like you have to believe in your guts that there is a person out there for me. Because if you don't actually believe that, you are not going to find it. Yeah. And it starts with that full stop. When people come to me, there's no good people out there. I'm like, well, guess what? You do I don't want you to end up in the singles cage for the rest of your life. But if you have that outlook, you have that mindset, even if the most perfect person was put in front of you, you'd be like, or you'd be looking at your phone because you wouldn't even look up because you're wired, there's nobody out there.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Right. I I think that is so important. And I love that. You have to believe that something's going to happen. It's like this whole idea where if you wake up and you go out into the world and think everything's happening for you rather than to you. Yes. And and you sort of see things differently. Um, and you you approach that to dating. So I do love that. Um Pascal's question it.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

So you don't think that's the I have a different view. I just think then, you know, uh uh, while looking, go about your life.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Well, do the thing you like to do, and uh if the right person comes along, you know, the door is open. I just don't think you should go and like uh in a hint. I'm I'm I want a relationship, I want to meet someone, I'm going to meet someone. When I go out, I go out to have a good time.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

If I meet someone, I meet someone. If I don't meet someone, I have a great time. I met a lot of the right people. I just think to me, we have a tendency to want to meet someone so desesperate, then we are again settling down for what less than what we want. And to me, go about your life, go to do the new, you like to play tennis, go in a tennis league. You like to work out, go in a group classes. You like to do you like to to take photography, belong to a club. You like to, I think to me, do the thing you like to do about your life, and along the way, there is real people will come or will enhance your life.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I agree with you a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

That was the Jameshi agreed with me on the I told you.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

But this is the perfect point because when what is the next thing? How do you become magnetic? When you're feeling number one, you have the belief that somebody exists and you're feeling happy, you're feeling joyful because you're doing the things you love. It's like we were talking about in the beginning. Pick things you like to do. If you're a cigar person, go to a cigar event. If you like wine tasting, go to a wine tasting event. With my clients, I don't ever want them to even go on more than two dates a week. To your point, you have to fill up your cup with the people you love, right? The things you love, work out, have endorphins and dopamine in your system. You can't be 24-7. I just want to meet someone, I just want to meet someone because you're not coming into it with a good vibe.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yes, and it probably does affect to your point, Pascal, the date. So if you come in sort of so wanting that, then every person that you go out with is gonna sort of feel that. And it's gonna be pressure, whether it's overt or sort of you know, um, under uh under the radar, it's that it's gonna be there, I guess. That vibe where you're clear.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

It's like you can tell when someone is like, Do you like me? Do you like me? Do you like me? Is this going somewhere? Right. And that is not appealing to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

There is an art of dating.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Okay. When you go on a date and you have a great time, okay, you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

This is your next book, your book, The Art of Dating. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Uh there is an art of dating. Number one, you have to feel very confident about yourself. You have to know who you are as a person, what you like and what you don't like. Correct. You have to know the age group you you are attracted to, and if it's visible the group you're attracted to. Uh, you have to know if you want someone who's got children or no children. You know, so you gotta really make a self-search about who you are and what you want, what what what you're looking for. But uh there is there is uh uh uh my point is you can't sound too desesperate when you meet someone. You can't just start texting her and after text after text. I think that's a turn-off to me. Yeah, you know, you gotta you gotta take like uh you meet someone, you have a great dinner, you said, Hey, it was a great time looking forward to see you again. And let it go a day or two days. And two days a day, hey, I was just thinking of you. What week, what day of the week are you available? Yes. But don't engage, oh, what do you do today? Where'd you go last night? Um call her every minute of the days. I think there is there is a certain ethic about dating where most people who get out of a divorce, who lost their loved one, who's lost in the touch and connection and they don't know how to do that.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Right. And you just exactly, you're not coming from a place of emptiness. If somebody comes to me and we get a foreman and it says, I'm so lonely, right? It's like you need to do some other work before you get out there dating because you're not gonna date from a healthy place. Right. Right? You're gonna freak out if the person doesn't date you or doesn't text you right away, or you're gonna freak out about something else. You have to start from a healthy whole place. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

I got a client of mine who's about 71 years old. You know, me's not he's not really uh a stallion, but he's you know, he's okay. He's so desesperate, then he said to me, if you get me on a date, I give you $500. How desesperate you have to be for you to offer me money to try to find out.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Why didn't you that's a matchmaker? Yeah, I wouldn't have to be a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

He hire a matchmaker and the matchmaker wasn't able to match him with anyone.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Why?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Why? Because he's 71 years old, he's not that attractive, okay, and uh and uh he's he's he sounds too desesperate. You know, women sense when somebody is desesperate for for companionship.

unknown 30:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Interesting. Wow, that's too bad. I know I feel for that, but I do.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I feel I feel bad, and even when it comes up, I feel terrible. I look at him and I wish I could help you, but he needs a makeover, man. And you mean the makeover is not gonna do anything. He's just got a face lift, actually. He's got a facelift also.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Right, right. So he's worked on the outside. He's working on the outside.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

I think in the inside he's gotta just go about his business and have a good time. And if it comes up, volunteer clubs, go play golf, go go do things you like to do, and you find somebody on the way. But again, I think when you chase it, you never find it.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

And I think a lot of men get hit harder after divorce, right? And people don't talk about the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Depends if the men leave or if if left behind, there is a completely different dynamic. If the wife left him, yes, but if he left the wife, no.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Right, then he's out. He's out. That's a great point. And I think that especially for women, even if it was amicable and you know, he didn't cheat and leave and had someone else. But I think in general, women do a better job of having community, having friends, having other outlets, people to talk to. A lot of guys that I see in the dating world, and maybe this is where your friend is, they don't have those social connections. They don't have people to spend time with. So they don't feel that that cup is being full. So they're so reliant on the dating world. A lot of my female clients will go out with these guys, and they feel like at the end of the day, they're exhausted because these guys just want to talk for three hours. They don't ask the women one question. They're so they they're just like, oh, and then this and then this and then this. And then when the woman tries to redirect the conversation, he's like, Oh, that's interesting. So, anyway, more about me, right? And they just continue to stereotype but real. Right. Because they do that, just have these social connections. They are so pent up and it's almost sad. It's like, dude, you need to hang out with people, you need to call your friend, call your brother, talk to your therapist, like get all that out so that when you go out on a date, you're actually a pleasant conversation, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Get all your talking out like with your friends or with someone else, right? A date is not a session, it's about a date is not a session.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

It's about her. When you go on a date, it's about her. Where she's from, what did she do, where she grows up. I mean, you know, a medieval skill. I think it's very important to make her feel like she's special. And guys have a tendency to talk about themselves. I mean, I go, I have a couple of friends of mine, we go to events, and every day there is beautiful woman around, and there is nobody here. I said, Maybe you hem in too high. You know, maybe the one over there that modeled that 10 is not for you because you're four. You know, I mean it's fear. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, I think some guys are looking at it and say, Oh my god, look at her. I said, You she's not your caliber, you're not in the same league, you know. I mean that should be another book or show where you tell people what number they should be going about. You know, I mean, some people are looking at the the model is a tank, gorgeous, well-dressed, sophisticated, and the guy is a pot. Yeah. And he, what does he expect? The girl to come up and give him the time of the day, she will even look at him. So you know, so this guy, he's got what we call a defense mechanic of defense. Oh, look at her, she's not that great.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Right, right. It's fear.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Even though you're looking at her going, she's a 10. That's his own coping mechanism for saying, I could never get a woman like that. So what's my easiest way to do? Pull her off the pedestal. Ugh, she's a two. What?

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Right. So all of this is inside stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

It's tihabi. We need tihabi.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

It's the right. What about coping mechanism? I've been out with a girlfriend of mine and we were at a restaurant, and uh, it was sort of this has happened two times at the end of the night, sort of closing time is when all of a sudden the guy's like buying us a drink or wanting, you know, wanting to connect. And is that is that just sort of they realize it's the end of the night? I mean, I wish that some of these guys would have approached my friend earlier in the evening. Or um, you know, are people even I've heard some of my friends had don't get approached at all when they're out, which is just shocking to me. Erin Tim, who we had on, so that she's not approached when she's out. I think. Did she tell us that? Yeah, yeah. Some and she's stunning. It's just like, what is that? Again, fear, fear of rejection around.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Fear of rejection. Fear of rejection. And I would also want to hang out with her and go out. Like, are you giving off an open magnetic vibe? Right? It's hard enough if men are expected to do the pursuing and to see a beautiful woman and walk up to her. I work with a lot of guys. They're like, look, I'm a confident guy, but give me a sign that you're interested. Look over at me, smile, look away, look back again. Tell me if I came up to you, you're not gonna throw a drink in my face, right? So it's also about being self-aware. Am I projecting an open vibe? Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

But you know what? Women are very aggressive. If they want a guy, they go after it. They will go after it. If they like a guy, they will smile at him, they will give him a hang for him to come up to her.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

But then there are those guys, to your point, that are still nervous. They're like, oh my God, oh my god. So now what happens around closing time? Okay. Why is there a lot of activity that to go home to do it?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

It doesn't matter if uh, yeah, it doesn't matter if he doesn't talk to her. Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Is it well? There's a lot of drinks that are happening, right? He's like, okay, I had some more liquid courage, and now it's closing time in 10 minutes. Take the last shot, walk up to her because you know it's about to close. So again, what does it come from? Fear. Fear. Yeah, I'm not, I'm too nervous. I can't. And what are you nervous about? You're nervous if she says, I'm married or I'm not interested. Come on, dude. You have been through way worse things in your life. One no is not gonna destroy you. We fear rejection so hard, and it keeps us so blocked.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

That's what I talked to you about last week with our guests regarding the self-confidence. That's not the confidence, not everybody has the confidence to be able to talk to someone. And that's not something you learn, that's something you have in you, or you're a confident person and you go get her, or you, you know, you you lay back and you let that happen. You know?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yeah, I I mean we yeah, we talked a lot about that and just this idea of maybe trying to practice confidence because as confidence does, as confidence is, um, is sort of this idea of it. I want to switch gears. We we have a little bit of time left, and I wanted to maybe talk with have Pascal share some of his dating rules, and have you, Bella, share your thoughts on some of those rules. What do you think? Would that be fun? I think nothing would be better. Do we, and before we do this, do you rules? I mean, are there still rules? I mean, I guess they're norms, right? But are are dating rules out the door? Everything's sort of shifted. Um, because Pascal thinks he has a lot of rules. So let's let's go into that. I have a lot of rules. All right. I mean, I can tell you we can talk about our rules. Let's start with your rules. Okay. All right. So um, Pascal, should the man make the first move in either dating or in um Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah, okay. Yes. I think the men should be the first one to approach the woman. And that's a that's a that's uh uh show confidence, security, and maturity.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

I love it when men approach women, and I think every woman wants to be approached by a man that she's interested in first, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

She doesn't want you know every creeper walking up to her. Um the man should pay on the first date.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

I think no, that is your role. That's your role is yes, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

I I if I go on the first date.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

But the woman should not order the most expensive. Uh no, I think I think it'd be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Okay, there is things about that. Okay, first of all, I think it will be very nice uh knowing that you buy in dinner. I mean, uh uh uh first of all, in the end of the dinner, she could say, hey, could we split? That's classy.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

That's so classy. I always tell my wife very classy.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah. But the man she said, No, I have it.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Okay, completely agree. There is another rule where I feel like uh knowing that you go on a dinner with a first date, uh, don't pick up the most expensive serpent turf and a glass of champagne or something like that. Be simple and respectful because you don't know how financially that man is. So don't assume that he could afford a lapser and cake and he could afford a glass of champagne. So be respectful of him if you like him. Order a glass of wine, a salad, an entree, but don't go overboard.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Yes, be normal. I mean, good grief. The fact that we even have to talk about these things, these are like common sense rules. So, what I can also say is if you're a person on a budget, right? A man, a woman, whatever it is, you don't have to do dinner on a first date. You can do other fun things. It's the summer. Say, you know what? Do you want to grab a coffee and go for a walk? Is this person active? Can they walk? Can they keep up with you, right? You can go play pickleball. You can have brunch. There's so many other things you can do. And dinner sometimes feels like a lot for a first date. Right. Right? A lot of people, it's like, let's just do an hour. I'm like, how long can you walk? Go for a walk, grab a cup of coffee. And studies show that when you're walking side by side and you're in motion, you can feel more attraction because you have adrenaline. Okay. And you can have more substantive conversation rather than having the gaze of a stranger looking right at you, which can feel a little more intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good talk. I agree. I think that's something I've got to do.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

All right, next rule of of uh Pascal. The Pascal believes that chemistry should be there from the beginning. Is that true? Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

If you know the person, when you look at the person and you just touch her, you know there is that spark there. I think to me it's it's uh it's it's been for me, that's the never one.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Do you think chemistry can come for women? Yes. For men, they know immediately within the first 10 seconds, I would sleep with you, or you're in the friend zone. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Right? And unless there's a dramatic physical transformation, you're not gonna cross over into that other zone. So what if a woman doesn't feel it, but the man does, should the woman give it a little more time? Yes, because physical chemistry in women can't be sparked by emotional chemistry, by intellectual chemistry, and that can happen over time. So I tell women, I don't in fact, if a woman feels chemistry too soon, it can be a bit of a red flag for me. It probably means you've dated this person before, metaphorically, like you're feeling an anxious attachment to this person. It's fear versus chemistry. So there's a lot to that. But for women, as long as there's no red flags, keep dating this person again and see if the chemistry can develop. I have had situations, you guys, where suddenly on date six, a woman's dating a guy and she's like, you know, this is a real story. She said, I think she says, I'm Catholic, but I think this guy that I'm dating is a lot more Catholic than me. So we ended up nicknaming him naming him and we called him the Pope. Okay. So they were going on a six date. She was going out with the Pope. And so they get to dinner and he said, Listen, I don't mean to be rude, but I've got a situation going on at work, and I might, if my phone rings, I'm gonna have to take this call. She said, No worries, thanks for the heads up. So the phone rings, he takes the call, and I said, Well, what happened? She goes, It was the government. The Pope became directive, confident. I said, How do you feel? She's like, I think I like the Pope. That was it. Chemistry went over the line. For women, it can be that simple.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

I agree. For men, is the physical chemistry attraction, and for the woman is the mental emotion. I think that's that's what turned on a woman. Correct. Yeah, that's what it's like.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

And it can happen and it can come later in the game. I'm not saying it's gotta take two years to develop. That's not it. Okay, but okay, like you would let a glass of wine breathe, right? But we don't let dates breathe.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Right. Right. That's a good point. Okay, let's just do two quick more two more. Um, if a date cancels at the last minute and doesn't immediately reschedule, is that a red flag? Is that a rule to not date that person again?

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Depend depend depend the occasion. I mean, if she's got the babysitter who didn't show, or uh, or if she's not feeling good, uh, you know, you give her I I will give her another shot. I will give her another shot. And you too.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I agree. I think that the context matters. And I think that if you need to cancel the same day, do your best to say, I am so sorry, I'm sick, assuming I'm better. Can we meet next Tuesday evening instead of right? Take a rain check, or even better, ask for a couple of different days because that tells the person I'm actually interested. And another tip around that, don't text this stuff to people. If you have to cancel, hit the audio note, right? If you don't call the person, send an audio note because what happens to Pascal's point earlier, we misunderstand text. Right. Well, and if you're insecure, you're gonna be like, oh, here's another one. It's rejection, boom. Instead, if you call and say, Oh my gosh, Pascal, I am so sorry. My sitter flaked. I have no one else. I was so looking forward to this date. I have a sitter locked in for next Wednesday. Is there any way that can work for you? I am so sorry. And leave that in a voice note because then he can hear the tone of your voice.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Right. And that's really the last one, which is too much texting is gonna before a date's gonna kill.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

I think too, you misinterpret Dixie based on the mood you are at the time of the text.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

I mean, we could go on for that conversation forever before GDP.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

I know we're at our time, but we're so happy that you came back and sat with us today. And for having me. You are officially a friend of our show, and we are welcome anytime. We love talking with you. Bella Gandhi, check out Smart Data Academy if you have any other uh questions. Follow us on Instagram and comment and subscribe, and we will see you next time in my hometown.